CARDRUNNERS

What's Your Edge

Alexdb's Poker Blog

March 03, 2009

This is a note for my own use as much as anything else, below is a copy of a post made by Negreanu in a response to Galfond, discussing Durrrr's poker strategies.

The summary is that tournament players tend to play badly, or at least on a lower level of thought, and that when cash players play in tournaments they can overestimate the plays and adjustments that their opponents are making, because their regular cash-game opponents play to a much higher level.

This is a mistake that I made in a £20 live tourney I played at the weekend. Within two two rounds I had 3-bet the guy to my right for a 3rd time and there were a few comments about 'internet playing style', I'd had AK and AA, but neither had gone to showdown. This time I had AK, and the button cold-called. I thought that given my opponents had reason to believe I had a very wide range they would cold-call widely and try to win the pot frequently when I missed the flop. This meant that on a 955 flop I thought my AK still had a load of equity against his range, and with 1600 in the pot and about 3.5k left to play (and I had another 1500 behind that) a check raise shove might even fold out the mid pairs that actually are ahead of me.

So I made the check-raise all-in and he called with AA. He actually called with a hint of hesitation and a mention that I might have a 5 that could have been considered a slow-roll in a cash game! I now think that I completely overestimated the likelihood that a tournament player was adjusting and making play here. Giving up with AK on all 955 flops with only 2x the pot behind, to a 3/5pot bet, would be disastrous against good cash game opponents, but is probably fine in tournaments, especially considering that this was a realy low buy-in. As DN explains here:

"I fully understand why both Patrik and Durr sometimes take more risks in tournaments. I get that they do have other places they can make money and their hourly rate is always a concern. That actually kind of proves my point a little bit. They make plays in tournaments that aren't always optimal, but they make them because, for example, being short stacked in a tournament is less lucrative than playing side games.
The biggest criticism I would have for Tom's tournament game is that I don't think he realizes sometimes how basic, and weak, most tournament players are. They are so much worse than the players he's used to playing.

This might not make a whole lot of sense, but I'll try and put it into words the best that I can: when I play tournament poker against typical fields I use about 55% of the weapons that I could. The reason I choose to do that is because the low risk approach is good enough to consistently build my stack without taking any risks. That same type of approach against sophisticated players, either in a tournament or a cash game, is simply not good enough. If I face better players, especially later in tournaments I usually make the adjustments and add more "play" to my game.
I watch lots of great cash players play tournaments at 100%. They still might be playing great poker, but not necessarily playing tournament poker properly. A simple example would be something like: Patrik and Gus are at a table full of weak/bad players. Instead of just picking on them, Patrik will start to make plays against Gus, the only real threat to him at the table. David Oppenhiem- same exact thing. Instead of being more cautious against the tougher opponents and picking on the weak, he'll go right after the best players at the table- full steam ahead and mix it up. That's a mistake.
Those aren't exactly the types of things I've seen Durrr do, and frankly, I don't have a ton of hours against him in tournaments either, but I did see him make high risk plays that weren't necessary for him to build his stack. Durrr is well bankrolled when he plays cash games and can fade the inevitable swings. In a tournament, though, you are restricted.
I broke him in a WPT event at the Bellagio in a hand where I raised under the gun, Thorladen re-raised me in second position, and Durr called on the button. I then went all in (had him covered). He called with 10-10. There are two tournament mistakes in that hand. He should have just folded the 10-10 in the first place, and then when I went all-in he could have gotten away from it. (I had AA)"

Entry Tags:

Mar 9, 09 16:02:23

Hey Alex just watched your vid and was wondering if you would consider taking me on as a student and how much you would be looking to charge? Do you have a msn so we can have a chat?

sunderland4

Mar 10, 09 13:44:39

Hi, I haven't decided if I want to try any traditional coaching yet. If I do decide to I'll let you know or post in the blog or something.

Alexdb