CARDRUNNERS

Sep 26, 08 03:08:02

I would be pretty skeptical of this one and make sure to look at it from all sides. I found that much of what this movie says is just plain wrong. But at the same time, I think there are some things that may be true. I would check out loosechange if I were you. It is done well and goes into great depth about the events of 9/11. I would be careful though Eric, I posted a blog about thinking 9/11 was an inside job and you'd have thought I was the worst person on the planet with all of the incredible haterd I received. I hope you don't get all of the same. If you do, don't sweat it. Most poeple just don't want to believe facts if it says somethng badly about their country.

leatherass

Sep 26, 08 04:18:53

Thanks leatherass--I'm definitely taking it with a grain of salt. I've been reading a lot of debate and discussion generated from this film, and one thing is for certain. The degree of truth contained within the film is certainly important but takes a backseat to the purported purpose of the film, that is to stir up skepticism and inspire people to search for truth rather than accept what is convenient. The film definitely accomplishes this.

With the issue of 9/11 being completely a government run insider job and "Loose Change", I'm not sure I can completely accept it. I'm not a huge supporter of conspiracy theories and I believe ridiculous ones such as "we never landed on the moon" to be quite laughable. However, it is eerily evident to anyone who lays out the facts that the story told to us about what happened on 9/11 is definitely incomplete, and US government involvement is very plausible and not a stretch. On the other hand, I believe in our country's tradition of "innocent until proven guilty" (even though our own government chooses to ignore it), so I'm not going point fingers or make accusations until absolute incriminating evidence, such as an admission by Bush or a CIA agent, can be produced.

Eric Liu

Sep 26, 08 05:07:06

I can settle this for you now. The government can't even effectively deliver your mail, how could these rubes possibly pull off something of this magnitude? Not even close to being possible

jjdodd27

Sep 26, 08 11:37:18

jjdodd27: isnt that what they WANT us to think??


eric, i watched that video almost a year ago. I found the religious part the most interesting. I was raised catholic and it really opened my eyes and changed my feelings towards organized religion.

I dont know if 911 was a conspiricy or not, but if it was would it really be that far-fetched? War=Money Money=Power. People are power hungry, so why not. The world's over populated so war helps the over population problem and makes the bankers a few extra billion dollars. Do you ever think about why this so called "financial chrisis" is going on right now?


All i know is the world's corrupt, its always been corrupt, and it probably always will be corrupt. Thats why im proud to be a poker player. Theres no politics in poker, theres no boss, theres no ass kissing, its just you and your opponents. It's like psychological war where after its over your whole table can go out for drinks and hang out.

overbet56

Sep 26, 08 13:03:40

"Theres no politics in poker, theres no boss, theres no ass kissing, its just you and your opponents."
more true than in most professions but not 100% sadly :(

Eric Liu

Sep 26, 08 13:54:10

I have no idea honestly what to think about 9/11 either. Eric, I think you say it best when you say that the story that the govt. gave us is certainly incomplete. In fact, it is pretty obvious they were tryign to cover a bunch of stuff up. Does that make it an inside job? Probably no one will ever know. But I think we can all appreciate that we didn't get the full story.

I think you make a great point about the purpose of the movie being to get you thinking. That is so true. I really wish everyone would just open up and start doing some more thinking. If you're paying significant amounts of money to an organization like the govt. I can't understand why people wouldn't want to know more about where it is going and what they people they elected are up to. And of course with Zeitgeist, they go over some pretty major things that you would think would be important to take a look into.

leatherass

Sep 27, 08 01:39:19

My argument...

The US govt were definitely not behind the 9/11 attacks.
Why?
Because they didn't find any WMD's in Iraq.

Think about it...

The US govt's justification for the war & going against the UN was that Sadam had WMD's that posed a direct threat - he didn't/destroyed them - result a huge blow for the US and British govts threatening their entire 'war on terror'

If the US govt could orchestrate the terrorist attacks & professional demolition of the twin towers they could surely smuggle in some dodgy medium range missiles into Iraq??????????

My conclusion:
At worst the govt can only be covering up its own incompetence regarding how the situation was handled and intelligence info that was not responded to properly prior to the event

Noble1

Sep 27, 08 23:22:07

interesting lines of logic, being used by different members...

I was thinking about the timing of the "financial crisis"....just in the nick of time for bush admin to push through cronie legislature?

JahDoos

Sep 30, 08 13:52:03

Eric I think that you need to take a look at this if you haven't already...

http://www.popularmechanics.com/technology/military_law/1227842.html

Popular Mechanics even came out with a TV special that I tried to find for you. I cannot remember what channel ran it, therefore I had some difficulties finding it. The video articulated each scenario extremely well and was easy to follow.

Popular Mechanics essentially runs through every claim that loose change has thrown out there and effectively refutes them. I have not watched the video that you posted, and I realize that you do not believe all of the far fetched claims that "Loose Change" exhibits. However, I am fairly certain that reading this objectively will shed some light on 9/11.

I know it's hard to accept but to in tough times ppl tend to rationalize things; when in fact the most obvious answer makes the most sense...enjoy

nferno21

Oct 1, 08 15:40:29

One day the truth will out. If you watch Michael Moore's Farenheit 911 you will see further evidence that Bush and his cronies had inside knowledge of the 911 attacks. In time if enough of us keep chatting/posting there will be a movement strong enough to out and bring down the evil regimes that preside over us. Saddam and Bin Laden responsible...? Dont't make me laugh.

ace.tentura

Oct 1, 08 15:49:20

Noble1's point about how difficult it would be to pull off this farce plus the inability to frame Iraq, which should have been as easy as falling down, Makes soooo much sense. Thanks Noble for interjecting a bit of reality.

Storm_Crow

Oct 1, 08 16:02:01

No offense Eric, you seem like a smart guy but I would strongly urge people not watch that video as it contains little to no truth, that is unless you have two hours to waste. nferno21 provided a great link, here is another.

http://www.skeptic.com/eskeptic/06-09-11.html

slmfast14

Oct 2, 08 11:41:47

I agree with Noble1. That said, I don't think anyone can argue our government is full of morons, so its possible they just screwed that last part up. Either way, I seriously doubt our government did this, but maybe I'm just an optimist.

HomeRow

Oct 3, 08 12:08:49

im guessing that the popular mechanics tv special also aired on a station that william randolph hearst has ownership... since his media conglomerate, like many of our other major media outlets, usually delivers only the un-biased truth.....

oh wait....... lets read up on our boy willy...

http://everything2.com/title/William%2520Randolph%2520Hearst

yellow journalism?war?politics?

a genius businessman? you can say that.. someone you want to trust? meh!

natediesel

Oct 5, 08 13:00:44

Take that table down dude!!!

streetfamep

Oct 5, 08 13:59:08

Just watched you bust out of the FT of EPT London Eric, you were so unlucky to run into Aces with your A6 just prior. I think you won a lot of friends though by the classy way you handled yourself both at the table and after you exited. Good luck next time Bud.

ace.tentura

Oct 5, 08 21:19:09

Thanks for all the cool articles guys, its a lot to think about ;)

Eric Liu

Oct 6, 08 01:10:36

eric just watched this yesterday and definitely found it very interesting - glad you did as well.

capokerstar

Oct 7, 08 07:28:30

The world is much more complicated than 1+1=2. The argument that the gov had nothing to do w/ 911 because they would have planted wmds in iraq just doesnt make sense. There were weapons in Iraq, what we were sold was that there were weapons that were capable of creating a mushroom cloud. Planting a nuclear weapon on a country isnt so simple.
I think the point of the movie is this, there are a hell of a lot of unanswered questions about what happened on 911, immensley important questions, and for some unknown reason none of them are part of our public discourse, and that is extremely unjust.
So if no ones providing answers to these questions, or even entertaining the questions, we'll all just take it upon urselves to fill in the blanks.

Dixon Yass

Nov 1, 08 10:13:06

Many claims Zeitgeist claims re heavily disputed.

http://www.tektonics.org/copycat/copycathub.html
http://www.tektonics.org/lp/nappy.html
http://www.tektonics.org/copycat/osy.html

I was kind of shocked from Zeitgeist and I am trying to see how much of it is based on true historical sources.

makelaris